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S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - Printable Version

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S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-16-2017

So, user guide says this:

Quote:
  • This last step shown below is only necessary for printing support material with a different extruder. For dual color prints, S3D has a Dual Extrusion Wizard which automatically configures the two different processes:
    • Create two different processes in S3D and name them Extruder 1 and Extruder 2. Each process will use exactly the same FFF and FRM file config, except for the Primary Extruder setting in the Layer tab, which should be set to Extruder 1 and Extruder 2, for the Extruder 1 and Extruder 2 processes, respectively. Set the Support Extruder to Extruder 2. Once you have made this change, you can group both processes and edit one of the processes to make any changes necessary to the printing speed, travel speed, printing temperature, etc... and both processes will be updated. 


Bit light on the details in practice! :p



Not mentioned:

- Tool Change gcode.. how is this handled? Are we meant to add in spegelius's purge/retract code in the GCode tab? Or ignore that problem and maybe it works (I dont know as I havent got this far, but HIPS is too expensive to waste)??
- When you make 2 processes (which contradicts S3D's own instructions) and try print with both you get a popup error:
"Print Range overlap -The selected processes currently overlap while printing the same model.."


Anyone actually do this? I'm using a Rostock Max FWIW. 


PS: Before its asked, single printing and dual colour working fine :p


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-16-2017

Just to update.. yeah we need a tool change script or something.. S3D doesnt natively do anything there. Just starts Ext2 and rams the filaments together!


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - spegelius - 10-17-2017

Yes, you need tool change script, S3D has poor support for this kind of setup. Well, there's the custom g-code scripts, but it's pain to set up adequately, I've tried. My scripts should work with g-code that prints supports with different extruder, the script really cares only about tool changes. Then again, I haven't actually tried it, too much other stuff taking all the time and haven't really printed stuff that would need extreme supports. But I'll add it to my to-do list to test. Also adding comprehensive S3D instructions is on the list, S3D is really a b1tch to get working sometimes...


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-17-2017

(10-17-2017, 03:44 PM)spegelius Wrote: Yes, you need tool change script, S3D has poor support for this kind of setup. Well, there's the custom g-code scripts, but it's pain to set up adequately, I've tried. My scripts should work with g-code that prints supports with different extruder, the script really cares only about tool changes. Then again, I haven't actually tried it, too much other stuff taking all the time and haven't really printed stuff that would need extreme supports. But I'll add it to my to-do list to test. Also adding comprehensive S3D instructions is on the list, S3D is really a b1tch to get working sometimes...

Ive tried to hack my own script, even tried pull SeeMeCNC's gcode from their customer Firmware in, but it dont know the S3D lingo for "On Select Tool1" (etc) that the Firmware GCode uses... Sad

So far I got it retracting on start (which I dont want but it does it anyhow), retracting then switching filament but not  feeding Ext2...


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - spegelius - 10-18-2017

I tried printing supports with different extruder yesterday and it works fine. I filaswitched the file because with Prometheus you'll need to material switch tower regardless of what you are printing.
I used one process, configured everything else for Extruder 1 except supports, which went to Extruder2. Same printer profile I use for dual color prints.

Going to try soluble supports later today, have a roll of something that should work, cannot remember what it is... PVA I think...


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-18-2017

Cool, that was my next plan too. What about the built in Purge tower (which is the official material switch tower solution) and Ooze Shield? Purge tower your script takes care of, but the Ooze shield seems the defacto way of doing dissolvable support. I have HIPS myself, haven't got much usage yet!


PS: I ideas on how we could get diff temps for different filaments (ie when trigger when purge/feed). Matteforge wants 200c and HIPS wants 235c. I can print both at 230c but thats a bit OTT for the Matteforge.


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - spegelius - 10-18-2017

I haven't used the built-in tower, but it might be possible to use it along with filaswitch, if the built-in tower is printed after tool change. Just set the purge lines to 1 in filaswitch if you want to minimize purging.

In the temperatuer section in S3D there should be individual settings for each extruder. Filaswitch doesn't handle temps at the moment during tool change, that is on my to-do list.


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-18-2017

I have no preference for towers, yours I know works! The stock one is a square based about 1/3 the width of yours.

On the Temps, I cannot change it on mine anyhow as S3D only allows unique temp sensors per extruder and of course with the Prometheus System we have just one temp sensor for both. How are you setting the sensor ID on Extruder 2?


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - spegelius - 10-18-2017

The ID's follow the tool IDs, cannot set them all to T0.

I did a test slice with Ext1 and Ext2 having different temps. S3D sets the temps at the beginning of the print, not during tool change. So filaswitch to the rescue, I'll read the temps while parsing the file and set the correct temp for each extruder during the filament switch. Now I only need to implement it Smile. Maybe during weekend if nothing comes up.

I tested PVA with a very small print. Bit mixed feelings, seems PVA doesn't stick that well to PLA. OTOH, filament changes seem to work fine. Put the part to water to dissolve the PVA.

[Image: 2017-10-18%2020.10.38.jpg?dl=1]
[Image: 2017-10-18%2020.10.53.jpg?dl=1]

Next to try something larger, like this Fennec fox, should be good test as it needs lots of supports. Notice that I'm only printing the dense support layers with Ext2, to save the PVA. Although, just noticed that the roll of PVA I have should be used within 12 months of purchase and I bought it something like 9 months ago... wonder if it gets bad or something after 1 year?

[Image: Fennec.png?dl=1]


RE: S3D - how to print support on Extruder 2 - kodachrome - 10-18-2017

Yes, I was going to ask if you could add temp changes to Filaswitch, it seemed like something that could be done on your side!
Good call on the dense support too. Ill give my HIPS a test tomorrow. So far all i can say is it doesnt really stick to PEI sheets, so if it sticks to a layer of PLA (Matteforge) then perfect!